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GR's Big Idea & Thy Image of the FRS 
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Joined: 16 May 2015 01:01
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aridas wrote:
Maybe things are different in the New Human Movement, but it seems like the last thing that the humans running Starfleet want is Kurzweil's singularity

Yep. Precisely my point. The human culture that creates Starfleet is positively phobic about AI and eugenics. They are adamant about retaining their "human-ness".

This is a culture that has been through something really big and traumatic in its past to result in such extreme feelings. We know they came face to face with the product of eugenic engineering. Maybe they faced the Singularity as well. And if so, where did all the Singularitans go?

I think that Terra and Starfleet weren't that upset about genetic manipulation in small doses until Khan reappeared. The Eugenics Wars were icebergs in history - most of what was really happening wasn't known until much later, and little emotional reaction to such distant events. But when you find out that 15 years ago, a well-known captain rescued a man who should have been 200 years dead, nearly lost his ship to that man, marooned him on an uninhabited planet, and that same man then steals another ship, steals the top-secret Genesis device, and creates a planet and star system, and nearly touches off a war with the Klingons over it, then suddenly you do start to get fearful and emotional about it.

And the New Humans were forced to leave Federation Space some time after Triangle, and most likely after Khan. They were too pushy for singletons to accept as anything other than a threat, and they were a threat. So we became a threat to them. They left, or we destroyed their collectives.

23 Jul 2016 02:58
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I don't think humans will be any threat to Singularitians. By definition, Singularitians will have evolved to another level altogether. We will be to them like apes are to us. If they choose to leave, it will be because they know there is a lot more opportunity out there, than here.

"After a time, you may find that having is not so
pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting. It is not logical,
but it is often true."

Mr. Spock is dead. Live long, Mr. Spock.

23 Jul 2016 10:02
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Are the New Humans the singularity? Q and the Organians seem to be individuals. The Metrons may be arguably singletons or a collective. The Melkots could be a Oneness.

So, if the New Humans are the singularity, does anyone else know this? I doubt it, as if there were a sort of Rapture, where all the New Humans ascended to Ancient status, ala Daniel Jackson, I'd think the government and most of the citizens would want to know "what happened? How? Why? Can we do the same? Do we want to? It would be an important topic in TNG.

Or maybe they kept it secret. They pretended to go all cult-like, left messages saying "ate pudding, shed skin, rendezvoused with mothership" and disappeared. Or emigrated off-planet and left Unsolved Mysteries when their ships didn't arrive when/where expected.

If they are not the singularity, then why do we not see them again? Did they fade away? The fad became unfashionable? Did they remain, but after Kirk came back from Zaran to report what happened, did the singletons in society react badly? Did they leave in fear of such a reaction? I'm biased against them because I see them in terms of Galbraith's Oneness imposing itself, which horrifies me. I'm INTJ, and don't want to constantly share my skull with millions of others. I like being able to go off by myself when I've had enough company. OTOH, the fact that the 'bloody Mind Control Revolts of 2043' are still shaping public opinion and politics is a point in their favor, as that'd be used against them if people thought they took individuals over against their will. Also, Riva's Chorus and similar things would have brought up unpleasant references.

Or did they simply go quiet? Did they grow up, mature, and stop talking about their bold new human adventure, and simply start shaping society towards Roddenberry's ideals? That might explain why Picard's Federation was so much closer to 'perfected'.

They may be politicians and public interest groups, but not Starfleet - they'd be even more prone to being seduced by the exotic alien philosophies out there than the cadets who graduated before Kirk's class. And we'd have seen them in TNG+.

And if they aren't the singularity, who is/was? I like the idea that there was one, but prefer it not to be the New Humans, Despite the horror to me of their Oneness, they've always fascinated me, and I want to see more about them and their interactions with the Trek 'verse.

24 Jul 2016 02:07
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