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Got something...not quite sure what it is, though 
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This is the final form of something I've been working on, off and on, for a good ten years. I was working the night shift then, and on a slow night i was rereading the FRS. Specifically, I was looking at the entry on the Renner-class escort, and the notation that an earlier class had an ovoid primary hull. My drafting abilities were not then (and are not now) up to cooking up something like that, but it got me thinking about doing a ship with a non-symmetrical saucer. I had just finished reading "The Terrible Hours", Peter Maas' book about the rescue of the crew of the USS Squalus in 1939, and I decided to name the starship Momsen in honor of the hero of the disaster

I had originally intended her to be something along the size of the Akyazi. At the time it didn't seem likely that any new official designs in the PA lineage were going to come along, and I thought it would be fun to cook up a late TOS precursor in the same vein. However, as I ironed out the details, I realized that I had a size problem. Unless I was planning on crewing her with hobbits, there was no way I could keep her as small as I originally intended. Unfortunately, by the time I worked out the proper size, I found I wouldn't be able to render the curves properly with the templates I had. I set her aside for several years until I picked up a second-hand copy of Corel Draw.

Except for the differences in beam due to the slope of the rim, I designed her to be vertically symmetrical wherever possible. The saucer has no undercut, since I needed the space for crew facilities. Engineering is centralized in the lower superstructure. Since I intended Momsen to have a less extensive mission profile than Constitution, I decided she wouldn't need as large and extensive a bridge module as the cruiser. I also wanted no external projections on the bridge level; I've read too many arguments over the years about the bridge orientation of the Enterprise to leave any room for debate.

The final vessel tops out at slightly more than 240 meters, with a standard mass of 120,000 tons and a crew of 150. Where I'm a little unsure of is how to classify her now. She's too large for the PA classification I originally had in mind. I'm not really sure if she fits better as a heavy scout, a light frigate, a destroyer, or something else. I deliberately chose not to lay out her armaments until I decide exactly how to classify her. Any suggestions as to where she best fits in would be greatly appreciated. You can check her out here:


http://img217.imageshack.us/i/ventralview.jpg
http://img690.imageshack.us/i/bridgelayout.jpg
http://img96.imageshack.us/i/sternview.jpg
http://img7.imageshack.us/i/portandstarboardelevati.jpg
http://img17.imageshack.us/i/planview.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/i/bowview.jpg

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02 Feb 2011 05:59
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I really love the basic form and arrangement, but I'm not a fan of the oval hull... it just doesn't look right, IMO, lol. But I do love your basic concept.


02 Feb 2011 06:11
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I'd have to think about this one a little bit. It's an interesting design though. Some very interesting components and definitely has that pre-TOS feel. Will have to post some more later, but I like the original approach.

Did have to mention though that I also think your Hawk/Phoenix combo is a rather interesting looking vessel! If Space 1999 had led to TOS in the TNG timeline.....

Mark

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02 Feb 2011 11:50
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I think that the design concept is pretty good, but I would have to agree with Bolian, the elliptical primary hull is too extreme shaped in this design. It dosen't feel very TOS or post TOS/pre-TMP.
As it is, it looks like a severly stretched TOS design.
Maybe try this design with a less ovoid shaped ( read fatter ellipse) so as to bridge say an early version leading to the hull shapes in TNG/Voyager. Perhaps try an ellipses with a wider minor axis. Try out varying sizes until you find one that strikes a balance between a completely round primary and what you already designed.
Work out a different shape for the upper bridge areas and maybe have a different shape for the back of the primary hull other than just showing a completely elliptical hull.
Perhaps something vaguely reminiscent of the USS Gemini or Surya class.
I could see this as an early evolutionary design step towed using the hull shapes shown in TNG/Voyager,though.
Nice drawings, though, also.
I just think it needs more refinement.


02 Feb 2011 12:15
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Renner was a corvette, wasn't it? That's what I'm remembering, anyway. This ship is similar enough to what I was writing about that it could be the ovoid-hulled corvette. I was never really that happy with Ralph's (Gonzalez) use of such blocky forms in that design, but he used them in a really innovative and imaginative way, so I went along with it. He didn't know how to use French curves yet, so we got what we got. But my thinking -- that ovoid would fit better with the French-curve based lines of the TOS and TMP ships -- led me to include that reference to an earlier vessel.

As for a description of what a corvette is from a FRS point of view, this was my description posted in the Fleet Requirements and Starship Design thread:

Quote:
Corvette CV (A small, maneuverable, lightly armed warship, smaller than a frigate, used for pursuit. Well-shielded for its size, but lacking in more than rudimentary sensing ability.


Are those nacelles meant to be a direct precursor to the LN-50 linear nacelle? If so, are they circumferential or linear, or some combination of elements? And what is your dating for this? Contemporary with TOS?

My main criticism is that the combination of ovoid nacelles, an ovoid saucer and an ovoid bridge gives the impression that you started with a conventional circular saucer and nacelles and compressed them. I think that perhaps going with a circular (or otherwise non-ovoid) bridge and either circular PB nacelles or a variation on the rectangular LN-50s might dilute that impression.

Finally, the hanger/impulse deck you've added to the aft saucer looks a bit cobbled together. The impulse units are squeezed onto the lower part is a place that looks both too small for what would feed them and not ideally located for a linear connection to those nacelles -- if there is such a connection on this ship. I'd suggest thinking that area through some more -- use the opportunity to create a platform to attach the nacelles/pylons and integrate the impulse units in a more substantial way, and to differentiate that area almost to the point it would look separable. I think that would improve the logic of the design as well as improve its look.

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02 Feb 2011 12:26
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hmm... what would you get if you made the ovoid go side-to-side long axis ... ; )

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02 Feb 2011 19:39
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Well, I had a nice, long reply done, but apparently it vanished into the ether when I tried to post. Ah, well...take two.

Part of what I had in mind when I cooked this design up was that it was something of a stopgap, in that there was a need to fill a hole in the force structure fairly rapidly. As a result, the ship that emerged worked, but it had some quirks.

aridas, I originally set this ship as coming out roughly three to four years before the Endeavor introduced the LN-52. At the time I was working on her I had no idea that the number in the nacelle model indicated its year of introduction. I gave it the designation of D/W model PB-49. It was supposed to be the company's last circumferential design. It did have a few features leaning towards linear technology (which is why it had an elliptical cross section), but it was still a circumferential engine. Because it was caught in the middle between the two technologies, the nacelle was temperamental. The backstory I worked out said that the reason her saucer was so stretched out was that the engine couldn't generate a stable enough warp field at the required speeds without a radical alteration of the hull.

So much for the in-universe justification. Now for the real world reasons behind her shape.

Nascence, when I worked out her proportions, I was doing all of my work in pencil, pen and ink, since my old computer couldn't handle a decent graphics program (thing couldn't even handle Windows 95!). I had to work with the curve templates I had, and I couldn't make the saucer much broader without having to draw each ellipse in multiple sections. I tried that a couple of times, and it just looked awful. The only other solution would have been to shorten the saucer, and I didn't want to do that because the whole point of the exercise was to do a non-circular hull. I did do a few passes with a Surya-style after hull module, but it didn't really work with the hull proportions I had. The stern was very pinched, and doing it that way left me with two options: lose the hangar, or split the impulse mount on either side of the hangar. I was pretty much caught between a rock and a hard place. I couldn't make the saucer bigger with the curves that I had, and I couldn't make the drawing smaller without driving myself crazy trying to do it.

The upper and lower aft modules were the only way I could figure out to give the ship enough space for an engineering section and the small hangar. Even then, I never could get them to look the way they look in my head. I wanted them to be a seamless merging of the B/C deck structure and the aft structure, but I just couldn't get it to come out right. To be honest, I have to admit it's a case of my reach exceeding my grasp. I've never taken a drafting course, and what I do know how to do I've picked up on my own. I've said for years any trained draftsman would take one look at the way I do things and run screaming into the night. This was really the first time I tried to come up with something without modifying someone else's design. That's pretty much what I've always done. Even the thing I did for the contest over at BBS was blending two existing designs. As long as I've got something to work with, I can do pretty well, but going beyond that has always been hard for me. That's what I'm currently doing now; I just finished reverse engineering the Decatur prototype to Phase II technology. But I won't be posting that anywhere without permission. I paid very close attention to what Nascence said in his thread about how people have played hell with his ships over the years, and I've got too much respect for my fellow artists to pull stunts like that.

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Last edited by MLJames on 03 Feb 2011 09:34, edited 2 times in total.



03 Feb 2011 09:23
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The previous post was getting too long, so I decided to finish off here. I did a quick, down-and-dirty reworking of the plan view of Momsen with three alternate saucers. Not pretty, nor anywhere near final, but just something to give an idea of possible changes.

http://img146.imageshack.us/i/planviewtest.jpg

Guys, thanks for your comments and suggestions, and I appreciate your candor.

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03 Feb 2011 09:29
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The 3rd and 4th versions are working very well for me.
Gives this design substantially more body and fluidity.
:D


03 Feb 2011 11:07
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I'm leaning towards something between alternate 1 (with a 40 degree ellipse) and alternate 2 (45 degree ellipse). I threw in one with a 50 degree ellipse as choice three, but I'm not all that fond of it; it's getting a little too chunky for me at that size.

aridas sent me something to show what he's been thinking of:

http://img31.imageshack.us/i/toscorvettebyaridas.jpg

(Sorry about the link; couldn't get the image to post .)

The more I look at this, the more I can see where this has advantages with a broader saucer, since the extra beam would offset some of the deck space lost by the aft cutout. I'm not so sure about the impulse vent being inset directly to the hull, though. It seems a little too movie-era in a ship I'd like to keep closer to TOS. Since I planned for the lower module to house engineering, I'm thinking more in the vein of having an external structure mounted port and starboard to the hull rim closer to the nacelle struts. Also, the more I think of it, the more it seems to me I should replace the engines with good old PB-47s, albeit with a few tweaks. I'll have to do a little brainstorming tomorrow and see what I can put together.

I'm still trying to puzzle out a way to make the command hull/hangar combination a more organic shape. As I drew it, it looks like the aft section was glued on (awkward, but I wasn't sure how to fix it).

Also, as I told aridas, feel free to post any suggestions you'd like about her; I'd welcome the help.

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04 Feb 2011 06:02
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