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Let's discuss Kiaga... 
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Perhaps it was because of the revival of the 4YW thread, but I was thinking about this ship last night. In particular, the bridge. As you might note, I had something different in mind for the bridge of that ship. The idea of having the secondary hull and dorsal be one seamless extension emanating from the top of the saucer afforded me some luxuries we don't regularly have. For one thing, its less exposed, while not being buried within the saucer a'la a dreadnought. It also affords the possibility of having a substantially greater diameter, if the entire semicircular front of the secondary hull attachment is bridge. Since I put the bridge markings from the "Cage" ship there, I suppose it is. 8-)

This idea of a double-circle-bridge is an outgrowth of my belief that on the class one ships with a B/C deck, there are "extensions" of the bridge on the deck below the bridge. In particular, a suite that includes a captain's office and stateroom, a forward weapons control center, and an operations center. This last part -- the operations center -- may be the most controversial. It is a direct extension of the bridge -- conceptually if not physically. The tactical center, or CIC. But more than that, because a class one starship would be about more than tactics and combat. So, there it is an information "funnel" and "filter", bringing together everything known about what is going on both inside and outside the ship and sending what is determined to be consequential up to the bridge.

Here are some rough models of what Todd, Bill and I developed for the Operations Room on 1701. This space is located on the deck immediately below the bridge -- deck two. The model was built by our own talented Mr. Tallguy.

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This was an evolving design before we stopped working on it, with the three of us trying to nail down both the relationship of interior and exterior AND what would go on in this space. HoloPlot boards, processing stations, data and com centers and holomaps, etc. were some of the things we toyed with and you see here. Here is Todd's revision of my original layout, with callouts:

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On a PA, things would be different. Much more would be about tactics. Also, I think there would be a greater need for seamless transfer of this tactical data from operations to bridge. Consequently, I see this as forming a second ring of stations around the bridge ring of stations we are used to. In the case of Kiaga, it's a horseshoe wrapped around a smaller horseshoe instead of concentric rings, but I think you get the picture.

The look of Kiaga would also be different. For one thing, there is far less use of the turbolift on this ship. Access to the bridge is by ladder, as on the Cosmostrator from Silent Star. In fact, I've always imagined Kiaga's bridge as a distinct blend of the bridge from "The Cage" and the bridge from Silent Star:

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So, I'd like to have you folks give your opinions on this "set". Given the rough guidelines I've provided, how would it be laid out, "in universe"? How would operations, weapons control, a captain's office, etc. be incorporated? From an artistic perspective, how might the "look" of "Cage" and Silent Star be blended?

For reference, here is a size comparison of 1701 and Kiaga:

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Finally, a comparison of the size of the Enterprise bridge dome in proportion to the Kiaga:

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31 May 2009 14:03
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The idea of having a CIC or Ops Center is a very good idea, and something we should have seen on-screen at somepoint.

I think, though, that this area should be kept seperate from the bridge. Especially on a more tactically oriented vessel like a PA. In fact, that is one of the aspects of the Aklua layout you guys did in SotSF2 that I've always really appreciated.

Ideally, IMO, during a tactical situation you want the bridge dealing specifically with moving the ship around and firing the weapons. Meanwhile, you have the CIC/Ops room physically removed (but in complete communication electronically/holographically/however) with the bridge to provide tactical and strategic input where necessary. Yuo want this area and these functions phyically seperate for one big reason, if none other: if you lose the bridge and the ship's CO, the CIC/Ops and the XO (who would run this area and these functions during these sorts of situations) can immediately take over the functions you've just lost upstairs. The mission must come first in this sort of crunch, and you want the least amount of delay/interruption as is possible. In fac tin the Akula deckplans, I notice you went one step further as there is, in addition to the CIC, an auxilliary control room (seperate from both the bridge AND the CIC. Trinary redundancy is a VERY good thing in a combat vessel.

If you look at my PA thread in the Creations section, you'll see how i would man this area. Doesn't need to be fully manned during most operations, but can be manned at a moment's notice when needed. I'd prbably ammend that scheme by putting the Operations Officer in the CIC, and the XO in Aux Control during General quarters/Red Alert/Battle Stations/What Have You.

As for your artwork above: very well done as usual. Your floorpolan is similar enough to the one shown in SotSF2, but is clearly an earlier version of the same sort of facility.

Interested to see this develop.

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31 May 2009 14:21
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This was one of my favorite ideas from our 1701 work. It was functional enough that it seemed natural, but it never seemed unthinkable that we never saw it on screen.

One of the things I like about the JJ-prise is that there are actually parts of the ship you can WALK to from the bridge. I know, other Trek designs have featured this as well (Defiant, NX-01). It just feels more - comfortable I guess.

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01 Jun 2009 10:58
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Is a CMDR. or LT. CMDR. typically the skipper of a Kiaga-class starship?


02 Jun 2009 19:51
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IIRC it was a LT CDR for Akyazi, so I'd think in wartime it would be no more than that.

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02 Jun 2009 22:11
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aridas wrote:
IIRC it was a LT CDR for Akyazi, so I'd think in wartime it would be no more than that.


You all said Lieutenant Commander or a Lieutenant with enough time in grade, as I recall.

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02 Jun 2009 22:24
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I always thought of this ship almost as star fleet's equivalent to the US air force's "A10" in that it's based on rugged but low tech, designed to kick ass and survive a hell of a beating.

I see this ship as having more manual operations, either full time or as a full back up should what automation there is get knocked out. I see it as having thicker hull armor, especially around vital areas such as the bridge.
I see the bridge as having a more "submarine" layout, linear over circular. I'm reminded a lot of the Defiant bridge from DS9.

At the very front is the main screen. This screen is a full sized one, like on the enterprise. Note there is no console between the con and the main view screen.

On the left side of the view screen is the helm. It is similar to the way the weapons station was on the E refit, but more of an L with the primary station looking forward with a sub screen and two sub stations along the left side wall. The primary station is the Main Helmsman. He steers the ship. The secondary stations on the wall are manual propulsion and Maneuvering. Manual Propulsion controls/monitors the warp and impulse drive, and the person manning that station controls the speed of the ship. Maneuvering controls/monitors the maneuvering thrusters and RCS system.

On the right side of the screen is the weapons station. It mirrors the layout of the helm station, but has three stations along the wall. The primary station is the Tactical officer. Along the wall are Weapons - Phaser station, Weapons - Torpedo station, and Defensive & countermeasure systems station.

aft of the helm station is the engineering station. This station monitors all non propulsion engineering systems. Life support, gravity, ect.

aft of the defensive systems and engineering consoles are doors. The weapons side leads to the sensor room. The one aft the engineering station leads to the Communications room.

The sensor room is the land of the science officer. It has his station as well as a station for each sensor type, planetary, subspace, photoic sonar, LIDAR, RADAR, ect.

The communications room is the land of the comm officer. Again, it has his station as well as a station for each of the comm systems, Subspace, lasar, ect.

The con is located in the center, between the two doors. The captain's chair faces the sensor room door and the xo's chair faces the communications room. They can be rotated 90 degrees to a forward position, but that is the limit of their movement as in most active situations the officers would be standing. On the ceiling above the con is a a series of smaller tactical displays and an intercom system.

Aft of the con is the navigation station. It takes up the entire rear of this smaller bridge. It has a vertical plot map (think of the plexi boards and wax pencils of yesterday but digital) as well as a large charting screen table used by the navigation officer and his assistants. Wall stations include things like pulsar location network, local spacial conditions/density readouts, ect.


Aft of nav is a small corridor which leads to the ladder way to deck two, the captains underway cabin/office, and the bridge's head.





Deck two or three would contain the operations/CIC center, commanded by the operations officer. This would basically be a smaller version of the bridge if needed, but would primarily be where the intell/operations specialists analyze the data coming out of the sensor room.


Aux control would be under the control of the "first lieutenant" or the most junior officer in the line of command. He is far enough out of the way so as to not get in the way but still learn. He also is far enough away from the action so as to be a set of "clean eyes", which may catch something the more involved co, xo, and ops miss.

At least that's what I was thinking.

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03 Jun 2009 14:05
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Mysterion wrote:
aridas wrote:
IIRC it was a LT CDR for Akyazi, so I'd think in wartime it would be no more than that.


You all said Lieutenant Commander or a Lieutenant with enough time in grade, as I recall.

Wasn' the captain of that destroyer off Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 a lieutenant? You know the one who reported a submarine, and fired upon her.


04 Jun 2009 06:46
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Does the Kiaga have a shuttle craft that is launched and recovered from the ventral bomb bay-like doors? Is this a full-size shuttlecraft? Shuttle pod like the one in Star Trek: Enterprise, or the unused Jefferies' shuttle design?

I just cannot get over how similar the Cosmostrator bridge design is to the Enterprise. It works very well as a pre-TOS starship bridge design. Does anyone know if Jefferies or anyone involved in the production of TOS mention First Spaceship on Venus as a design influence? Since it was released in 1962, it's possible that the design was known to Jefferies and I understand that he and Roddenberry had collected science fiction illustrations that they like that did influence the design process.

By the way, is Kiaga named for the Swahili girl's name or the city in Kenya? How many of the class were built and what are their names and registry numbers?


05 Jun 2009 16:34
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^Mike Okuda said he asked Matt Jefferies and that Jefferies said he'd never seen the movie.

I wonder if perhaps he saw it under its original, pre U.S. release title.

I originally had planned the shuttlebay to hold one of the big, curvy shuttlecraft. The more I think about it the more I like the idea of instead having something like Warped9's interpretation of another early Jefferies shuttlecraft design -- the proto-Galileo:

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My reasoning is that the ship itself is designed for stealth and (supposedly) capacity to take heavy fire. Shuttlecraft would be used for offloading SAS for highly targeted operations. A big, warp capable shuttle might attract more notice than a stealthy PA offloading an impulse-driven shuttlecraft 5-10 AU from its destination.

Or... maybe both the curvy warp shuttle AND the one above, with only one in the bay at any one time.

The ship is named for the city. Or the girl's name. Who knows? (You'll probably be able to tell from the rest of the class's names.) :D

Kiaga-class listing:

820 Kiaga
821 Kowk
822 Kalinga*
823 Kanawha
824 Kensington
825 Kurtarran
826 Kriti
827 Katsonis
828 Kabyle
829 Kingston
830 Kitago
831 Kocatepe
832 Krka*
833 Kaldra
834 Khitomer
835 Kiberia
836 Kojin
837 Klendathu
838 Kin Hwicce
839 Kormoran
840 Krios
841 Kurd Siirt
842 Kaifeng
843 Kamogawa*
844 Kalliope
845 Klymene*
846 Kalypso
847 Kostolain
848 Korinthos
849 Kallichore
850 Kreetassa
851 Kansas City
852 Kordylewski
853 Kalmia
854 Kelez

* indicates lost or destroyed

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"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others."
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia Query XVII, 1783

"...here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor to tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it." -Thomas Jefferson, 1820


05 Jun 2009 23:57
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