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Chiways 
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aridas wrote:
I've always thought it would be cool to construct some workable model of space and chi "highways", chi "roads", chi "shoulders", chi "quagmires", etc that might explain an explorer like Enterprise zigzagging back and forth between the frontier and beyond, defending the high value routes, discovering new ones, and policing routes into Federation space. I think that's the way you have to see what is going on, because Star Trek is part naval drama and part police story. It is part "Captain Cook", part "The Enemy Below" and part "Dragnet".


Darkwing wrote:
I had thought of mapping the chiways thing, somewhat, but you're thinking far more ambitiously than I was.
In my thinking, the Masters of Rigel built the chiways, so they converge on Rigel, which is why it's hard to avoid dealing with the Orions. The Federation at best may suspect the chiways are artificial, but not really know who could have created them, especially since the Boda (the uplifted rats the Masters intended to maintain their legacy) are offended by their pisspoor uplift and the arrogance of the Masters, and has done everything they can to bury any knowledge of the Masters.
I had vaguely considered the possibility that parts of the chiways are breaking down after so long, creating negative chiways, but not really put much thought into that aspect.


aridas wrote:
I never thought of them as manufactured, but rather thought they were natural variations in subspace energy strung out like a ragged spiderweb throughout the galaxy.


So, in order to avoid derailing the 50 For 50 thread, here's the topic. In a couple days, I will dig up my partial rewrite of The Book of Rigel and see what I have for the Masters and their legacy as it relates to my ideas for this. Meantime, Aridas has a very different idea than mine.

What is your opinion?


20 May 2017 03:29
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Bring it on!


20 May 2017 09:49
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I pruned the quotes a bit to focus on the topic, Darkwing. Let me know if you'd prefer and I will return them to the way you had them to begin with.

I think this is very fruitful ground to explore. When I was fleshing out the parameters of a SotSF game, and developed the idea of the SSW+S formula, it also occurred to me that giving some body to these ideas would help support storytelling. In other words, I disagree with the notion that these technical bounds should be vague to permit broad storytelling opportunities. That's just the whining of lazy storytellers talking. No- we don't whine that the fact people can die inhibits storytelling opportunities. We use those limits as fodder to show how courageous, resourceful people deal with them. Particularly in a form like Star Trek, where interpersonal conflict is de-emphasized, the conflict of man against the limits of reality absolutely has to be believable and not flacid. Think TSfS and having dead Spock come back to life. As bad as it was to see Spock die, it felt weird to have a whole movie devoted to undoing it, as if Star Trek were jumping the shark.

By fleshing out just the two central parameters of weapons and speed, the limits get more real.

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20 May 2017 09:52
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hmm... would you compare the Borg Transwarp Conduit network to what the Rigellian Masters constructed?

IIIRC... the Borg used naturally occurring tanswarp pathways and merely expanded them with their advanced technology... : )

the same principle might work with exploiting subspace geometries... or the smaller Geon Holes mentioned in SFC... ; )

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20 May 2017 23:39
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aridas wrote:
I pruned the quotes a bit to focus on the topic, Darkwing. Let me know if you'd prefer and I will return them to the way you had them to begin with.
I had been leery of removing too much of what you said, so I left more than necessary.

Quote:
I think this is very fruitful ground to explore. When I was fleshing out the parameters of a SotSF game, and developed the idea of the SSW+S formula, it also occurred to me that giving some body to these ideas would help support storytelling. In other words, I disagree with the notion that these technical bounds should be vague to permit broad storytelling opportunities. That's just the whining of lazy storytellers talking. No- we don't whine that the fact people can die inhibits storytelling opportunities. We use those limits as fodder to show how courageous, resourceful people deal with them. Particularly in a form like Star Trek, where interpersonal conflict is de-emphasized, the conflict of man against the limits of reality absolutely has to be believable and not flacid. Think TSfS and having dead Spock come back to life. As bad as it was to see Spock die, it felt weird to have a whole movie devoted to undoing it, as if Star Trek were jumping the shark.

I see a bit of both here, nailing things down and keeping some vagueness.
From Memory Prime:
Quote:
Pathfinder Two banked into a heap of partially sifted data downloaded from an archaeological dig on Boreal VIII. The headers indicated that Datawell would prefer it if this data could support a colonization theory put forth by the archaeologists of Boreal VI. Traces left in the stacks told Two that preliminary work had begun and that the theory would be supported.

The traces also indicated that the data actually more closely matched a theory connecting the colonization of Boreal VIII with the activities of a subset of Datawell that had been quiescent for 6.3 x 1012 seconds. That part had been named the Tkon Empire and was well known to the Pathfinders by its myriad data traces that wove in and out of the downloads from Datawell. As yet, however, noone had specifically requested information pertaining to the Tkon and so all the data that confirmed the ancient empire's existence was carefully filed in the backups, along with the revelations of the Living Universe, the true theory of warp travel, and the value of pi worked out to an infinitely repeating decimal.

Datawell (the world Kirk, Spock, et alia live in) doesn't know these things, because they haven't learned to ask the right questions yet. It's there, but it's not known.
When I run a roleplaying game, I don't tell the players the whole truth. Sometimes I haven't decided, and wing the whole thing. Other times, I planned out the whole thing, and I intend the scenario to seem like one thing, but be another. And yes, there are times when it is just what it seems to be, but the players can't be too certain of that. When I haven't decided, I try to leave wiggle room for multiple interpretations.
It also be informative sometimes. I harped on my magic rules, and then, late in the game, broke them. While most of the party was whining, one of them had a realization: "What if it was a clue?". It was very satisfying to hear them finally learning!


Quote:
By fleshing out just the two central parameters of weapons and speed, the limits get more real.
Yes, whether the actors know the limits or only think they do.


davros_of_borg wrote:
hmm... would you compare the Borg Transwarp Conduit network to what the Rigellian Masters constructed?

My idea is like a warp highway. Zephram Cochrane is tooling across the prairie in his Connestoga, and suddenly finds I-80. the transwarp conduits are only there when opened, almost like creating at-will wormholes, but with limits to where the endpoints can be. And it's only my idea that the Masters did it. Aridas thinks it's natural. I'm trying to think of a way to make both be true to some degree, yet still be satisfying.

[/quote]IIIRC... the Borg used naturally occurring tanswarp pathways and merely expanded them with their advanced technology... : )[/quote] Good point. The Masters rebuilt all the worlds in their system, cleaned out and refueled their star, rejuvenating it, and did some other stellar engineering projects, which is why I decided they could have believably built the chiways. So perhaps their work is an expansion of a naturally occurring web of tangled chi.

Quote:
the same principle might work with exploiting subspace geometries... or the smaller Geon Holes mentioned in SFC... ; )
And how do Geon Holes fit in with chiways? Separate concept, related phenomena, related, but nobody knows it?


21 May 2017 03:28
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And how do Geon Holes fit in with chiways? Separate concept, related phenomena, related, but nobody knows it?

hmm... from context they appear to be very small weak spots where subspace more closely connects to normal spacetime...
or at least where the boundary layer is very thin... thin enough that signals can be easily sent through them... ; )

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All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force...
We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind.
This Mind is the matrix of all matter.
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21 May 2017 21:11
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23 May 2017 03:36
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yep... i was trying for something vaguely similar with the map i did based on the FASA starmap... ; )

i started with my variant alt-universe map below:

Image

and then affter laboriously removing all the text... took only the colored national borders and whacked it a bit with DMesh to get some simple triangle facets...

Image

the next step was to figure out a simple two layered Starfire type web/node map that connected with all the placed worlds and also allowed for border/neutral zones... ; )

then i realized that i really wanted the map to merge with some of my other larger scale Federation maps... but got distracted by another... squirrel... project... ; )

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All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force...
We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind.
This Mind is the matrix of all matter.
Max Planck


23 May 2017 17:56
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